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Merri am 04.09.2012 20:26 #10473


I know there has been some talk about this before, but I think I have a fresh view on how we could get this started.

My main idea is that the first five missions would be made for the original game first. This gives us some experience on making missions and also allows fine tuning the missions for RttR later on when a campaign support is finally developed. In the mean time we can plan how the campaign plays out, as I think there is a need to have a clear story arch that makes the campaign work together as a whole.

So storywise there would be a need for some elements that appear along the way while missions are played, giving the player hints of what is to come. But never really push it to player's face or tell straight on what'll happen. So besides playing the game I'd like to see a nice story being told that keeps the player happy and interested even through hardship that he might have while playing the campaign.


So, first five missions to be playable on original game sets us some limitations:

  • Story is based around Octavianus and game is played as Romans.

  • We can only use mission events supported by the original game. We can't come up with new stuff.

  • Any existing RttR feature or difference can't be used.



I also think there is a need for other requirements:

  • Extensive use of harbors: each map should have the ability to build ships.

  • Maps should feature original object graphics = custom LST file!

  • Each map would feature a new, original and awesome looking Headquarters building for the player (as a treat: "OMG I'd like to see the next one too!")

  • Some of the maps should encourage player to build boat routes! REALLY!




First mission idea
This mission should do the same kind of introduction to the game as the original game did. So all the buildings would be introduced one by one and the player would understand what he needs for what. Unlike the original campaign the mission should introduce all the buildings. The mission should be fairly easy.

Another change is that I'd like to put the player face multiple enemies along the way. So player's first enemy could be some lousy AI with no upgraded soldiers and which would've ran out of them. This would introduce the player the concept of what happens if you don't have enough resources (ie. mining).

The second AI would be tougher, with a few upgraded soldiers and access to mining, but no gold.

The third AI would the toughest: access to some gold and enough iron to let it grow a bit. It should have one strategic Catapult, but no ability to build more. Player would get a Catapult when a Scout finds it. "They have it so we must build one too!"

All of these AI players should be out of contact of eachother so player would need to expand to the unknown to meet these opponents. After defeating the third opponent the player should find a harbor site, get the Harbor building and Shipyard introduced as the last buildings. After sailing the ship should land and find an island where there is a Gate. When Harbor completes and conquers the land the mission would end.


Other missions
I'm volunteering Pine Apple Trouble as one of the first five missions. It can't be used as a first mission as it wasn't designed that way. My thoughts for it are quite cruel for the player, but it should be fun as well.

I also had this thought of having a river based mission where player has to build a Harbor which will then go through enemy territory and player would get a new Harbor behind enemy lines. Player would face strong opponents if he tries to conquer his way through land and would be forced to defend or lose the game. Instead through the river the player would face weaker opponents that he can beat and get access to resources which allow him to beat any opponent. This mission would require balancing so that player would be forced to grab any resource he can get in the beginning and maybe he'll run out of resources in one-two hours of gameplay unless he gets access to more resources via Harbor. Too quick expansion along the river by the player would ruin his chances because he'd need the extra time of peace to make sure he has a lot of Generals to defend.

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Settlers II.net admin


Spike am 05.09.2012 00:30 #10477

Im Ruhestand
Zitat:
Story is based around Octavianus and game is played as Romans.

Why do we have to use this limitation? I don't understand that one, thought you can change the race?

Zitat:
Extensive use of harbors: each map should have the ability to build ships.

I don't think that this would be good. I wouldn't like that one.

Zitat:
Maps should feature original object graphics = custom LST file!

like!

Zitat:
Each map would feature a new, original and awesome looking Headquarters building for the player (as a treat: "OMG I'd like to see the next one too!")

Hmm, this wouldn't force me to play the game - I liked more new regions and awesome designed maps. New objects would be much better in my opinion! :)

Zitat:
Some of the maps should encourage player to build boat routes! REALLY!

Well, I would use on these maps storehouses to avoid this stuff :D Maybe you got a sample map?

Zitat:
First mission idea

Yeah - I also like maps were you got a "late game" means, that maybe your country is splitted - one part has coal, the other gold and in the middle you got  an enemy and you should find a way and tricks to connect your country.

Zitat:
Other missions

Yeah, also liked a mission where you have to conquer a river step by step

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Merri am 05.09.2012 08:11 #10483


Zitat von Spike:

Zitat:
Story is based around Octavianus and game is played as Romans.

Why do we have to use this limitation? I don't understand that one, thought you can change the race?


As far as I know it is not possible. I haven't been able to change the player from blue / Octavianus. Of course it is possible to mod the game further by changing all ingame text to refer by name to someone else than Octavianus and maybe even provide a custom LST to replace his face, but that also makes installation a bit harder.


Zitat von Spike:
Zitat:
Extensive use of harbors: each map should have the ability to build ships.

I don't think that this would be good. I wouldn't like that one.

I'm not very hard on this one so non-harbor maps are ok too.


Zitat von Spike:
Zitat:
Each map would feature a new, original and awesome looking Headquarters building for the player (as a treat: "OMG I'd like to see the next one too!")

Hmm, this wouldn't force me to play the game - I liked more new regions and awesome designed maps.

Nope, but it is an addition and gives a unique feel. I always liked how the first mission had a tent in place of a Headquarters. And the game makes it possible to change the HQ graphic so why not?


Zitat von Spike:
Zitat:
boat routes!

Well, I would use on these maps storehouses to avoid this stuff :D Maybe you got a sample map?

I think a good example would be a map that has a lot of small rivers, in real life have a look at something like Bangladesh. There could be places for normal road crossing every now and then so player could move on, but otherwise the best option would be to use boats.

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Settlers II.net admin

Editiert von Merri am 05.09.2012 08:12

Spike am 05.09.2012 13:11 #10487

Im Ruhestand
Zitat:
As far as I know it is not possible. I haven't been able to change the player from blue / Octavianus. Of course it is possible to mod the game further by changing all ingame text to refer by name to someone else than Octavianus and maybe even provide a custom LST to replace his face, but that also makes installation a bit harder.

Ah yes sorry, I think it was only possible in savegames but i would like an other "Hero".

Zitat:
Nope, but it is an addition and gives a unique feel. I always liked how the first mission had a tent in place of a Headquarters. And the game makes it possible to change the HQ graphic so why not?

Yeah well thats a good point. Couln't we just add an roman HQ and then let it be a bit more finished in every mission? Then it would look like we are evolving more and more?

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Merri am 05.09.2012 14:50 #10494


Ok then, I think the easiest change is just to rename Octavianus in game text and only consider changing his face if there is time and energy to do so.

I also thought that the HQ could develop over time, however I was thinking about a twist too. With RttR I think it might be possible to have multiple paths, meaning player could choose how he wins a mission and this might lead to other missions. The easiest is to let player choose between good and evil: winning by beating the weakest opponents even if there is no need to, turning on fellow Romans, destroying everyone else... that'd take the player to a path to the dark side. This could reflect into player's HQ which could start turning more and more evil looking each mission he accomplishes and continues the dark reign.

So first five missions are just regular "becoming strong and able" type of storyline, but with RttR's missions we can develop a multipath and complex set of missions - with different endings. A story would unfold as player's journey to good or evil. Does this sound good?

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Settlers II.net admin


Spike am 05.09.2012 20:12 #10496

Im Ruhestand
Well yeah, I would like to test maps and events and also work on mapdesign etc.

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Merri am 08.09.2012 14:46 #10508


I'll make a first mission base map I guess sometime within two weeks. Maybe throw a river mission suggestion in as well. Hard to tell as I also want to do some programming stuff. First mission story part is "easy" in that it mostly introduces the game mechanics and some basic strategy elements. I guess I also like the fact it'll primarily introduce the original game stuff for new players, because we can't use RttR stuff in S2. This lets them in later missions see the value of RttR better when RttR-only stuff starts in mission 6.

If you want to I'd like to see what you can come up with another, more challenging river mission map. Of course it would only make sense to use it in RttR missions just that player won't go like "no, another river map already?" so it wouldn't be limited to S2 features.

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Settlers II.net admin


Spike am 08.09.2012 15:47 #10509

Im Ruhestand
Yeah got some ideas but most will work for s2 too I think - also I would like to introduce the "new race" (when finished) in RttR missions.

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Merri am 08.09.2012 16:19 #10510


Yep, that is a good idea. I guess we could introduce peoples in this order:


  • Nubians
  • (mission 1)
  • Vikings
  • (mission 3?)
  • Japanese
  • (mission 5? = Pine Apple Trouble?)
  • Babylonians
  • (mission 7?)


Mostly for even some historical accuracy as Nubians are the closest people Romans would've had contact with, although Nubia existed way before Rome existed as an empire.

I'm also thinking about the possibility that the early missions are not Gate based. Instead you'd just expand to new areas two missions before a Gate is found. This might involve time travel without them knowing about it just simply to explain out-of-game how it is possible Romans face the Vikings, Japanese and Babylonians.

This is starting to sound that the game starts off in around Egypt just to explain the Nubian more conveniently.

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Settlers II.net admin

Editiert von Merri am 08.09.2012 16:20

Spike am 08.09.2012 17:44 #10511

Im Ruhestand
Maybe a ship and a Little settlement which should get more land for the Roman Empire. Then you expand to an area Hold
by an Enemy. You then Start at the Same Point but you may have to expand to an other Direction (first south to north, then
from the middle to the west etc).

The resources you get by defeating the first enemy will be needed for the 2nd mission you maybe understand. Then in the
2nd mission you find the gate and strange things seem to happen - maybe a small map where you are an other empire and
defeat yourself (story mission which you can skip?)

Also I would like if maybe a map where you first had swamp and now is everything dry.

Just some thoughts

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Spike am 10.09.2012 16:55 #10544

Im Ruhestand
Here we go - A seafaring river map.

Wasteland
2 Players
https://rapidshare.com/files/373552698/ohneweg.wld

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